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 Israel vs Hamas

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x Arbiter x
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PostSubject: Israel vs Hamas   Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:50 pm

Well, it's official now. Israel has launched an all-out assault against Hamas in the Gaza-strip. Israel has been fighting for over 60 years now, they plan to end it. They started bombing Gaza and now they've even sent their ground troops in.
Hamas and Israel had a ceasefire for 8 months, but during that time Hamas still launched rockets onto Israel. Hence the sudden, very aggressive offense Israel has commenced.

That's really all I know about the current situation. I've never cared about the previous events, therefore I probably lack a great deal of information.
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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:03 pm

Yeah lets hope it will not last long. The worlds had enough wars, but these gusy have been at each others throuts for a long time. I happily leave this post open as we all know that the members of AoF are very mature and can handle political topics.

Ghosty

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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:20 pm

Only the dead have seen the end of war...

Think Plato or someone said that line.

Am not sure what is going to happen but honestly i hope they dont listen to any of that UN garbage about a ceasefire! The UN act all nice etc by demanding a ceasefire so they can politically sort out their differences but as soon as the ceasefire starts the UN dont give a dam. So the cycle continues, so hopefully they might find a ceasefire without infulence from these foreign countries which both sides will obey or maybe it will end with one country invading the other and ocupation begins. The worst thing will be if the war goes too far and the USA does their usual "peacekeeping" mission.... hello Vietnam act 4565.....

All this seems normal in the world and it seems it has been this way since the begining of time.

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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:47 pm

Titan wrote:
Only the dead have seen the end of war...

Think Plato or someone said that line.


Yes, he did, although I'm not quite sure what it means... I don't really understand it. Does it mean that wars will always be around to haunt us?
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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:19 pm

has many reasons 1 is that war never rly ends war if anger and anger is in all of us so that meens war is in all of us another 1 is when you fight it will haunt you another 1 is someone will always try 2 start war with you etc etc (or itleast thats what i think)

but ya isreal will win and soon egypt and syria is going 2 surround isreal and like the bible says the rapture will happen some1 will confirm the peace treaty that is alrdy in place and there will be 7years of tribulation :O

bible ftw
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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:05 am

x Arbiter x wrote:
Titan wrote:
Only the dead have seen the end of war...

Think Plato or someone said that line.


Yes, he did, although I'm not quite sure what it means... I don't really understand it. Does it mean that wars will always be around to haunt us?

I believe it simply means that war will always hunt the living until the time they die. But who knows he may have had a more complicated meaning for it...

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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:38 am

Well, due to this event i'm on defcon Delta... like i can do annything from Holland >.<
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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:11 pm

They both want peace, just under certain demands. Israel wants Hamas to stop firing rockets out of Gaza and Gaza wants Israel to pull out. I think they just need to go into talks with Egypt as the mediator.
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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:06 am

meh, they dun really want peace...

the isralaens had enough and just gonna crush Gaza... yesterday Gaza turned down 2 redcross ships with food en medical supplies with the response "We don't care about our people, we need arms" guess this will be a long lasting fight...
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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:19 am

[Aof][A]Cugix wrote:
meh, they dun really want peace...

the isralaens had enough and just gonna crush Gaza... yesterday Gaza turned down 2 redcross ships with food en medical supplies with the response "We don't care about our people, we need arms" guess this will be a long lasting fight...

A mistake u made there i am afraid-It is Hamas.

U can't forget about the role of Iran which is only causing more trouble in the region.

Tbh,really i am more on the side of the Palestinians on this than Israelite.Sure Hamas is no good and has got goals that are impossible to achieve and that through violence.

But u got to realise here-the people of Palestine elected Hamas in place of Fatah and Israel had a golden opportunity to moderate Hamas through dialogue.
(I know Hamas isn't the organization that would be willing to sit and talk early but things would have changed as it would have been under increasing pressure from the people themselves and Arabs.)
Hamas would have agreed to a two state solution.

If u put down Hamas down In Gaza through violence(military) as shown by Israel it will only spawn another 1000 such organizations.Organizations like Hamas thrive on conflict and violence.
U have given them more dead bodies to weep over and demand for justice through violent means.

There is NO military solution to this.

Saladdin one of the greatest Muslim warriors once said that-
"Blood never sleeps"

He is right of course the children of conflict in Palestine would most likely pick up arms than books in the future.And the endless cycle of conflict and violence and death would continue.

-Geromix

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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:15 am

If I may say so Geromix, Hamas were not democratically voted into power.

Through a cout de tat they stormed government facilities and overthrew the Fatah government. This was 18 months ago (i think). The reason they did is because Fatah refers peaceful policies, trying to talk their problems out, and a much more preferable form of Government. However, while Fatah was in power and engaged in 'talks' with israel, the beggar with american backing could do what he wanted. The beggar without, had to smile and agree. This is why Hamas took power, with the support of the people, because they would bring action for the people to see. Hamas refuse to acknowledge the state of Israel, hence, no talks. The people wanted action, and sure enough, the rockets began.

Now I don't know about what anybody else thinks, and im not on either side here. But have you ever noticed the reports of the Hamas rocket attacks? "One person has been killed / 3 people at a bus stop were injured / an old lady walking her dog was killed" etc etc etc, this is the extent of Hamas' "reighn of terror" over the Israeli people. If you were to stand behind a wall, and throw rocks over it, you might actually hit someone. Thats exactly what Hamas were doing. But, the number of people killed by hamas rockets must be something like <100 over the course of Hamas' term in office.

Israel have responded with a holocaust, 800+ civilians dead already. This is the perfect opportunity for one beggar to kill the other. He has an excuse, the backing, and the aftercare package (providing he does it right). You can see Israel's excuse for invading Gaza all over the news. With America's backing, they can pay for anything and after palestine is removed from the face of the earth? American propeganda to help convince the people it was the right thing to do.

The real aim of the Israeli invasion is the inverted aim of the palestinian people: The complete unprecedented destruction of the other. The Jews and the Muslims hate each other, and they want each other out of their 'homeland.' No matter what any international comittee says, this goal will never change. What we are seeing this the opportunity for Israel to carry the dream held in the hearts of the Israeli people.

Animals. All of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:56 am

Sinn wrote:
If I may say so Geromix, Hamas were not democratically voted into power.

this line is the most important, it together with my function explains my view of it.

Hamas not being demecratically voted into power means that we democratic Dutch will not support their gov. (not actually allowd to say that but it's true) On top of that Hamas is a recognized terrorist organisation here in Holland. That combined with me being a Bomb dropper means my opinion is what the gov tells me to be (which they pay me verry good for) and that i have to prepare my self for a peace mission (meaning clearing out the rest of the Hamas once Israel beats them).

I don't like Wars or Violence, but if the safety of my country is at risk or no other means fail; I will not even think if I should use Deadly Force... I just do
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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:36 am

this war is being going on since 1948 when israel/jews ran to palestine after they survived hitler...they then decide to make that land they occupied theirs and be independent. despite the arabs objections the UN give the them, jews ,the so called "promised land".

that land they occupied have some landmarks that are sacred to both islam and jews...the root of the problem.it all began with a riot at that time and it evolve into war.

these guys will be forever at each other throats that theres is sentiment that "if isreal and palestine are frens,it mean end of world is near" sounds ridiculous yes.

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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:58 pm

How can u say Hamas was not elected? scratch:

The Palestinians were tired of Fatah’s corruption and cronyism.
Foreign aid was siphoned off into the pockets of warlords and political hacks.
Government payrolls were packed with Fatah loyalists who not only did nothing but were expected to do nothing.
With its reputation for incorruptibility and its efficiency in providing social services, Hamas was a natural alternative despite its commitment to Islamic fundamentalism—not especially popular in mostly secular Palestine. Voting for Hamas was simply a way to vote “no” to Fatah.

Here is the link from BBC on Hamas winning elections-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4650300.stm

That was on 26th January,2006.The elections were free and fair.Exclamation:

So all the above arguments above i am afraid falls flat.

Yes they threw Fatah out of Gaza but Fatah is pretty much there in West Bank.

Fatah too was considered a "terrorist organization" but it is now recognized from the West.

PLO too was considered a "terrorist organization" but it is now not so.

The above two factions have had roles in terrorist attacks but look where they are now.
They have changed and they changed only through dialogue not through military means.

I don't want to defend Hamas but it is the people of Palestine who finally suffer and they need help.
U can't squash Hamas into oblivion and even Israel admitted this.All this is at a high collateral damage.

I am a peace lover and don't support support such "military actions".

These military actions are not justified because of the simple fact-
More civilians died than Hamas militants.

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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:02 am

Hi AoF Mates . as always , a poltical discussion will never ends. Thats the expierience i got from so many Forums i joined

The reason is always the same , a different point of view, a different background , a different religion.


I recommend to let it be like it is without further discussion bf it ends in a serious mess ( oh yes , mostly political discussions will do )

Take it like DarkGhost : I happily leave this post open as we all know that the members of AoF are very mature and can handle political topics.


No matter , what every one might to know about the past of this endless war , about the situation it was and it is and will be ,
my opinion is likesinn says :

The Jews and the Muslims hate each other, and they want each other out of their 'homeland.' No matter what any international comittee says, this goal will never change.


One more note:

The human being is general not peaceful in his thoughts and acting
This means , if some ppl have a opportunity to overtake other ppl , they will do
and there willl be never freedom

In this moment , if all ppl of the world would have a peaceful intention to anyone else
its the end of the human being development .

so sad its sounds , its the reality....
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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:36 am

To be honest u cant say that elections are free and fair anywhere..

no matter how they look it is possible that they are corrupt, its 1 of the risks with a country being democratic.

anywy just a note on the side.

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PostSubject: Re: Israel vs Hamas   Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:44 am

Dont think i'll say too much as am afraid i might offend some people, as i know we have people from loads of different cultures on the forum.

I dont know too much about the situation there but it might be better for Israel to keep going with the attack as it seems Hamas will only keep "annoying" them with rocket attacks if they dont.

It is a pity that not all Christian, Jewish, Islamic and all faiths can just live with each other but some belive that the others are wrong and must be punished for their faith which i find quite disturbing...

Wars have grown very complicated as time as went on, everyone seems to find different things to fight about and different ways to kill each other...

To be honest i wouldnt say am a peace lover because i do believe the time will come for everyone were they must stand up and fight for what they believe in. For some it is for the glory and safety of their country, family and loved ones. Others it is in the name of God or their Gods who they believe in. People have many views and opinions and i try my best to respect their views and i hope in return they respect mine.

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